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	<title>Comments on: Quantum biology</title>
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	<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html</link>
	<description>The Website of Professor Jim Al-Khalili</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:58:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Matt Mihelic</title>
		<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html#comment-975</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Mihelic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimal-khalili.com/?p=619#comment-975</guid>
		<description>Jim,
My recently published paper entitled &quot;A theoretical model of multi-agent quantum computing&quot; presents a very plausible mechanism of biophysical quantum logic and deals in large part with the content of your blog posting on &quot;Quantum biology&quot; of July 23, 2010.  The abstract can be accessed at http://spie.org/x648.html?product_id=883894 and I would be interested in any comments that you might have.
Matt Mihelic</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,<br />
My recently published paper entitled &#8220;A theoretical model of multi-agent quantum computing&#8221; presents a very plausible mechanism of biophysical quantum logic and deals in large part with the content of your blog posting on &#8220;Quantum biology&#8221; of July 23, 2010.  The abstract can be accessed at <a href="http://spie.org/x648.html?product_id=883894" rel="nofollow">http://spie.org/x648.html?product_id=883894</a> and I would be interested in any comments that you might have.<br />
Matt Mihelic</p>
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		<title>By: E. M. Elsheikh</title>
		<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>E. M. Elsheikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 19:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimal-khalili.com/?p=619#comment-107</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim and Dev,
Please forgive my confusion, although you are both concerned, my above comments are actually intended to Jim. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim and Dev,<br />
Please forgive my confusion, although you are both concerned, my above comments are actually intended to Jim. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: E. M. Elsheikh</title>
		<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>E. M. Elsheikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 07:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimal-khalili.com/?p=619#comment-100</guid>
		<description>Hi Dev,
I think quantum theory in its present formulation is not applicable to bio-systems, because the specificity of a complex biological activity does not arise from the specificity of the individual molecules that are involved. Moreover the interaction of a classical system with its environment decohere the wave-function.  To overcome these limitations something new is needed. I think it is necessary to broaden the concept of matter,i.e., to broaden the ontological foundation of contemporary physical theory. Matter is regarded to have matter waves at high mass density; unrealizing that it has also got bio-information oscillations at high information density. Thus I postulated that matter has complementary properties: matter waves at high mass density and bio-information oscillations at high information density. Such complementarity preserves Shrodinger&#039;s system to accomplish different tasks: it incorporates matter waves to account for inanimate phenomena or it incorporates bio-information oscillations to account for biological phenomena. It follows a material system does not possess simultaneously bio-information oscillations and matter waves descriptions.
Please see my paper &quot; Towards a new physical theory of biotic evolution and development&quot; Ecological Modeling 221 (2010) 1108-1118, where I demonstrated that the genome, for successive generations, generates bio-information oscillations. And that the bio-system is a quantum information oscillator.
Elsheikh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dev,<br />
I think quantum theory in its present formulation is not applicable to bio-systems, because the specificity of a complex biological activity does not arise from the specificity of the individual molecules that are involved. Moreover the interaction of a classical system with its environment decohere the wave-function.  To overcome these limitations something new is needed. I think it is necessary to broaden the concept of matter,i.e., to broaden the ontological foundation of contemporary physical theory. Matter is regarded to have matter waves at high mass density; unrealizing that it has also got bio-information oscillations at high information density. Thus I postulated that matter has complementary properties: matter waves at high mass density and bio-information oscillations at high information density. Such complementarity preserves Shrodinger&#8217;s system to accomplish different tasks: it incorporates matter waves to account for inanimate phenomena or it incorporates bio-information oscillations to account for biological phenomena. It follows a material system does not possess simultaneously bio-information oscillations and matter waves descriptions.<br />
Please see my paper &#8221; Towards a new physical theory of biotic evolution and development&#8221; Ecological Modeling 221 (2010) 1108-1118, where I demonstrated that the genome, for successive generations, generates bio-information oscillations. And that the bio-system is a quantum information oscillator.<br />
Elsheikh</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Martin ( Halifax, UK) (Twitter name: Pickagoodname)</title>
		<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Martin ( Halifax, UK) (Twitter name: Pickagoodname)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimal-khalili.com/?p=619#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Hi Dev,
              Thank you for your reply.
Can I first of all try to encourage you to post further comments?! It was your original one that spurred me to comment. Your views, knowledge and wisdom are as valid as anyone else and, they enhance Jim&#039;s website with high quality and interest. 
Yes, I agree with everything you have replied. We have common agreement on our open minded opinion for quantum drivers being involved in biodiversity. I&#039;m very pleased to hear there is a lot of emerging work about how quantum processes are involved with mutations, DNA structure and photosynthesis. Yes, this is a great time for enquiries and, discoveries into QM interactions &amp; influences, esp as you say on, &#039;how does QM influence double strand break and recombination&#039;. 
Thank you for extracting and drawing attention to my specific quote ..“goes about its business via it’s host slaves with confident arrogance” ! I chose the words after some consideration, deliberation and a little in trepidation! 
Yes, we may well be on a new frontier and, entering a time when  the two disciplines of QM physics finally merges with biology, that we can finally put ‘life’ whatever it is, or is not, into some context. I suspect a long journey lays ahead but, time waits for no man and, man waits for no time. Exciting moments await us and, I hope to feel them while I exist here! 
Tony Martin
8th Aug. 2010</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dev,<br />
              Thank you for your reply.<br />
Can I first of all try to encourage you to post further comments?! It was your original one that spurred me to comment. Your views, knowledge and wisdom are as valid as anyone else and, they enhance Jim&#8217;s website with high quality and interest.<br />
Yes, I agree with everything you have replied. We have common agreement on our open minded opinion for quantum drivers being involved in biodiversity. I&#8217;m very pleased to hear there is a lot of emerging work about how quantum processes are involved with mutations, DNA structure and photosynthesis. Yes, this is a great time for enquiries and, discoveries into QM interactions &amp; influences, esp as you say on, &#8216;how does QM influence double strand break and recombination&#8217;.<br />
Thank you for extracting and drawing attention to my specific quote ..“goes about its business via it’s host slaves with confident arrogance” ! I chose the words after some consideration, deliberation and a little in trepidation!<br />
Yes, we may well be on a new frontier and, entering a time when  the two disciplines of QM physics finally merges with biology, that we can finally put ‘life’ whatever it is, or is not, into some context. I suspect a long journey lays ahead but, time waits for no man and, man waits for no time. Exciting moments await us and, I hope to feel them while I exist here!<br />
Tony Martin<br />
8th Aug. 2010</p>
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		<title>By: Dev</title>
		<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Dev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimal-khalili.com/?p=619#comment-24</guid>
		<description>Hi Anthony,

Glad you liked my comment, I usually don&#039;t post them :) I too agree with the notion of quantum drivers involved in biodiversity. There is a lot of emerging work about how quantum processes are involved with mutations, DNA structure, photosynthesis etc. This is quite an interesting time for the field.

I am currently working in science but just wanted to point out that mutations on their own are not  sole drivers for &quot;classical&quot; diversity. For example, large sections of chromosomes are usually &quot;swapped&quot; by bacteria and equivalently &quot;shuffled&quot; by eukaryotes during meiosis; transposable elements which are regions of genomes that copy and insert themselves at other positions in the same genome also increases an organisms phenotype diversity. Viral DNA (reverse transcribed from RNA to DNA) litters most eukaryotic genomes again adding to the hosts diversity. There are epigenetic factors where the environment is said to shape the structure of DNA packaging restricting or enhancing gene expression. We must therefore see all these processes in terms of their quantum driving properties e.g. how does QM influence double strand break and recombination, viral RNA mutation rates such as with HIV and so on. 

The phrase &quot;goes about its business via it’s host slaves with confident arrogance&quot; is very befitting. I think as the two disciplines of QM physics finally merges with biology that we can finally put &#039;life&#039; whatever it is or is not, into some context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Anthony,</p>
<p>Glad you liked my comment, I usually don&#8217;t post them <img src='http://www.jimal-khalili.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I too agree with the notion of quantum drivers involved in biodiversity. There is a lot of emerging work about how quantum processes are involved with mutations, DNA structure, photosynthesis etc. This is quite an interesting time for the field.</p>
<p>I am currently working in science but just wanted to point out that mutations on their own are not  sole drivers for &#8220;classical&#8221; diversity. For example, large sections of chromosomes are usually &#8220;swapped&#8221; by bacteria and equivalently &#8220;shuffled&#8221; by eukaryotes during meiosis; transposable elements which are regions of genomes that copy and insert themselves at other positions in the same genome also increases an organisms phenotype diversity. Viral DNA (reverse transcribed from RNA to DNA) litters most eukaryotic genomes again adding to the hosts diversity. There are epigenetic factors where the environment is said to shape the structure of DNA packaging restricting or enhancing gene expression. We must therefore see all these processes in terms of their quantum driving properties e.g. how does QM influence double strand break and recombination, viral RNA mutation rates such as with HIV and so on. </p>
<p>The phrase &#8220;goes about its business via it’s host slaves with confident arrogance&#8221; is very befitting. I think as the two disciplines of QM physics finally merges with biology that we can finally put &#8216;life&#8217; whatever it is or is not, into some context.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Martin ( Halifax, UK) (Twitter name: Pickagoodname)</title>
		<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Martin ( Halifax, UK) (Twitter name: Pickagoodname)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimal-khalili.com/?p=619#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Dev,
         I enjoyed reading your comment. 
First of all can I say, I&#039;m no Scientist but, I do take an interest in those who convey &amp; share their knowledge and thoughts. 
I&#039;d like to say that, although I&#039;m quite versed in the notion of &#039;Darwinian Natural Selection And Survival&#039;, I&#039;m sceptical as to the accepted and unquestioned idea that it is entirely random mutation driven and, shaped by the environment to manifest in phenotype variations. I&#039;m not entirely convinced that there is no &#039;purpose, reason or driving  force&#039; to biodiversity. At the Quantum Level is where I see the the &#039;driving force&#039; behind &#039;life&#039;. It&#039;s the precursor to the competitive journey of all life forms. &#039;Life&#039; that isn&#039;t conducive to survival in the environment it resides, moulds into a &#039;Bio-freak&#039;  along the way. 
What is &#039;Life&#039; anyway? This strange phenomena is an elusive little critter. It&#039;s the proverbial &#039;Needle In The Haystack&#039;, the Ghost-like entity that eludes it&#039;s captors. It presents itself in the collective manifestation of trillions of atoms and, goes about its business via it&#039;s host slaves with confident arrogance!  Clearly it must reside at the Quantum level. Could it&#039;s passage from place to place or, in and out of existence, cause damage along the way? This is how I consider Cancers, DNA mutations and molecular damage may be caused. 
It&#039;s all at Quantum level of &#039;life&#039;.
28 July 2010</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dev,<br />
         I enjoyed reading your comment.<br />
First of all can I say, I&#8217;m no Scientist but, I do take an interest in those who convey &amp; share their knowledge and thoughts.<br />
I&#8217;d like to say that, although I&#8217;m quite versed in the notion of &#8216;Darwinian Natural Selection And Survival&#8217;, I&#8217;m sceptical as to the accepted and unquestioned idea that it is entirely random mutation driven and, shaped by the environment to manifest in phenotype variations. I&#8217;m not entirely convinced that there is no &#8216;purpose, reason or driving  force&#8217; to biodiversity. At the Quantum Level is where I see the the &#8216;driving force&#8217; behind &#8216;life&#8217;. It&#8217;s the precursor to the competitive journey of all life forms. &#8216;Life&#8217; that isn&#8217;t conducive to survival in the environment it resides, moulds into a &#8216;Bio-freak&#8217;  along the way.<br />
What is &#8216;Life&#8217; anyway? This strange phenomena is an elusive little critter. It&#8217;s the proverbial &#8216;Needle In The Haystack&#8217;, the Ghost-like entity that eludes it&#8217;s captors. It presents itself in the collective manifestation of trillions of atoms and, goes about its business via it&#8217;s host slaves with confident arrogance!  Clearly it must reside at the Quantum level. Could it&#8217;s passage from place to place or, in and out of existence, cause damage along the way? This is how I consider Cancers, DNA mutations and molecular damage may be caused.<br />
It&#8217;s all at Quantum level of &#8216;life&#8217;.<br />
28 July 2010</p>
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		<title>By: Ave</title>
		<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Ave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimal-khalili.com/?p=619#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Speaking of coupling to the environment, cancer cells have different mechanical stiffness to healthy ones. If i recall correctly, they have a lower restoring force ... the dynamics are described by a Klein-Gordon equation which is like a macroscopic analog of the QM one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of coupling to the environment, cancer cells have different mechanical stiffness to healthy ones. If i recall correctly, they have a lower restoring force &#8230; the dynamics are described by a Klein-Gordon equation which is like a macroscopic analog of the QM one.</p>
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		<title>By: Dev</title>
		<link>http://www.jimal-khalili.com/blog/quantum-biology.html#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Dev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimal-khalili.com/?p=619#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim! Congrats on the blog! 

Whilst I accept the notion that decoherence and coupling to the environment may play a key role in biology, is it fair to say that just because mutations in oncogenes and tumour suppressors are  rare that classical mechanics cannot account for them? Even without quantum mechanics, due to the population of cells and resulting Darwinian selection means that cancer is, or should be, a common or at least expected phenotype.

I refer you to: Nature 458, 719-724 (9 April 2009) &#124; doi:10.1038/nature07943

&quot;All cancers are thought to share a common pathogenesis. Each is the outcome of a process of Darwinian evolution occurring among cell populations within the microenvironments provided by the tissues of a multicellular organism. Analogous to Darwinian evolution occurring in the origins of species, cancer development is based on two constituent processes, the continuous acquisition of heritable genetic variation in individual cells by more-or-less random mutation and natural selection acting on the resultant phenotypic diversity. The selection may weed out cells that have acquired deleterious mutations or it may foster cells carrying alterations that confer the capability to proliferate and survive more effectively than their neighbours. Within an adult human there are probably thousands of minor winners of this ongoing competition, most of which have limited abnormal growth potential and are invisible or manifest as common benign growths such as skin moles. Occasionally, however, a single cell acquires a set of sufficiently advantageous mutations that allows it to proliferate autonomously, invade tissues and metastasize.&quot;

Is your suggestion more related to the role of “quantum Darwinism” [ Nature &#124; doi:10.1038/news041220-12], whereby a superposition of mutations occurs and eigenstates and eigenvalues that result or favour mutations of cancer genes further enhance the cancer cells&#039; ability to proliferate?

p.s. Like your book “Quantum Aspects Of Life” - quick plug for you there! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim! Congrats on the blog! </p>
<p>Whilst I accept the notion that decoherence and coupling to the environment may play a key role in biology, is it fair to say that just because mutations in oncogenes and tumour suppressors are  rare that classical mechanics cannot account for them? Even without quantum mechanics, due to the population of cells and resulting Darwinian selection means that cancer is, or should be, a common or at least expected phenotype.</p>
<p>I refer you to: Nature 458, 719-724 (9 April 2009) | doi:10.1038/nature07943</p>
<p>&#8220;All cancers are thought to share a common pathogenesis. Each is the outcome of a process of Darwinian evolution occurring among cell populations within the microenvironments provided by the tissues of a multicellular organism. Analogous to Darwinian evolution occurring in the origins of species, cancer development is based on two constituent processes, the continuous acquisition of heritable genetic variation in individual cells by more-or-less random mutation and natural selection acting on the resultant phenotypic diversity. The selection may weed out cells that have acquired deleterious mutations or it may foster cells carrying alterations that confer the capability to proliferate and survive more effectively than their neighbours. Within an adult human there are probably thousands of minor winners of this ongoing competition, most of which have limited abnormal growth potential and are invisible or manifest as common benign growths such as skin moles. Occasionally, however, a single cell acquires a set of sufficiently advantageous mutations that allows it to proliferate autonomously, invade tissues and metastasize.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is your suggestion more related to the role of “quantum Darwinism” [ Nature | doi:10.1038/news041220-12], whereby a superposition of mutations occurs and eigenstates and eigenvalues that result or favour mutations of cancer genes further enhance the cancer cells&#8217; ability to proliferate?</p>
<p>p.s. Like your book “Quantum Aspects Of Life” &#8211; quick plug for you there! <img src='http://www.jimal-khalili.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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